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Who's better? |
Mozenrath (Me) |
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60% |
[ 9 ] |
Mirage |
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40% |
[ 6 ] |
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Total Votes : 15 |
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APK Sinister Snack Fairy
Joined: 06 Sep 2005 Posts: 1322 Location: Lost
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:24 pm Post subject: |
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What I find annoying is that most cartoon villains are psychos who want to take over the world or part of the world. And when they finally get power, they do nothing with it, except sit on a throne and make someone serve them smoothies or something. (this is used in a lot of cartoons)
Or sometimes they just grow abnormally large and cackle evilly and gloat. They do this so much so that they get distracted and beaten by the good guys. So their 15 minutes of power was wasted doing nothing. |
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AladdinsGenie Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 11787 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Sun Mar 19, 2006 11:30 pm Post subject: |
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Not Cruella. She wanted a coat |
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Syera Cynical Scribe
Joined: 03 Jul 2005 Posts: 3441 Location: West Nenūvān
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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APK wrote: |
What I find annoying is that most cartoon villains are psychos who want to take over the world or part of the world. And when they finally get power, they do nothing with it, except sit on a throne and make someone serve them smoothies or something. (this is used in a lot of cartoons)
Or sometimes they just grow abnormally large and cackle evilly and gloat. They do this so much so that they get distracted and beaten by the good guys. So their 15 minutes of power was wasted doing nothing. |
Yes, it's annoying. And that's pretty much the only thing I see Mozenrath doing were he in power. He just sits on the throne, gloats a bit, and leaves everyone to stagnate - making you wonder why he bothered to take over in the first place. As it stands, none of his interests are even vaguely political, and the Land of the Black Sand has no immenant threats, real or imagined.
I can sort of buy the idea that Mozenrath wants to take over the Seven Deserts because he mainly wants to prove to himself that he can - but his lack of any actual reason (IE, "Well, I'd be able to run it better than everyone else!") is absurd.
Maybe if those villains had that smoothie blender to begin with, they wouldn't think they needed the world! _________________
Weblog | SH.net | Ed-sprite by Janette |
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Calluna Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 3692 Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 11:16 am Post subject: |
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AladdinsGenie wrote: |
Calluna wrote: |
Mirage's plans just don't make sense most of the time. |
You noticed that, too? All her plots are odd. |
The problem with Mirage is that they made her too powerful; they had to make her stupid for Aladdin to actually beat her. I mean, when her plans fail, she just stands there and lets Aladdin gloat or runs back to Morbia yelling "I'll get you next time!" I mean, she's standing right there next to Aladdin; why not just zap him to death? The same is true of Mozenrath to some extent, but not as much as Mirage: in "Two to Tangle" he can apparently teleport into the palace grounds and kidnap Aladdin; why not just teleport into his hovel one night and stab him in the heart and be done with it?
Syera wrote: |
Yes, it's annoying. And that's pretty much the only thing I see Mozenrath doing were he in power. He just sits on the throne, gloats a bit, and leaves everyone to stagnate - making you wonder why he bothered to take over in the first place. As it stands, none of his interests are even vaguely political, and the Land of the Black Sand has no immenant threats, real or imagined.
I can sort of buy the idea that Mozenrath wants to take over the Seven Deserts because he mainly wants to prove to himself that he can - but his lack of any actual reason (IE, "Well, I'd be able to run it better than everyone else!") is absurd. |
It seems like Moze is more interested in magical power than political power and that he only wants to take over Agrabah for the challenge; he pretty much admits it in "The Citadel" ("Not a particularly magical place, why conquer it? Oh, because it's there!"). So the plans where he goes after Genie specifically don't bother me, but it does when he goes after Agrabah itself. I mean, why not go after Quarkistan or the al-Muddi first, get more power, and then *use* that to go after Agrabah later? The only thing I can think of is that he's doing it to get Aladdin and is just justifying it to himself by saying he wants Agrabah, but if that's true then I've lost some respect for Mozenrath; he's always been one of the few villains who doesn't really seem to care about revenge... _________________ "If only I could believe you. Perhaps I can! After all... you do bear the name of a flower." -- Arbutus |
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Mariposa79 Lovesick Demented Reject
Joined: 07 Apr 2005 Posts: 1570 Location: corona
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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It's always been you Mozy. Mirage just reminds me of Catwoman from the 60's T.V. series or Grace Jones for some reason. She just not original. |
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AmethystFae Portland Princess
Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Mariposa79 wrote: |
It's always been you Mozy. Mirage just reminds me of Catwoman from the 60's T.V. series or Grace Jones for some reason. She just not original. |
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lol: I'm not the only one who sees this?
~Hikaru _________________ "HARDER, FASTER, DEEPER. . . HUH!!!!!!!" |
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VampireNaomi Sultan
Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 269 Location: Land of the Lurkers
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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I'm going for Mozenrath as well. It's been years since I saw any of Mirage's eps and I can't remember anything. She obviously didn't make an impression. _________________ "Now nothing will stand in the way of DOING THE DISHES!" |
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AmethystFae Portland Princess
Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Now, here's a question in regards to the recent topic of conversation. What do any Disney villains want to do when they rule the world? I mean, none of them have really given a reason for their actions.
Maybe I'm just spoilt by Anime. The villains more or less always have a reason for what they do, though it isn't revealed until the series is almost over. But, from what I've seen, in most cases, I end up being able to sympathize with said villain.
We don't know Mozenrath's past. We can only guess and come up with our own theories for fanfic purposes. Maybe he grew up kind of poor and was tired of the government and wants to take back what he feels is rightfully his. There's also the issue of power. He keeps having to have more. Maybe once he realized his potential, he knew just what he wanted to do with that "potential". There could be a lot of reasons as to why he wants to rule the seven deserts, and I think they link to something that happened in his childhood.
As for why he doesn't just zap himself into Aladdin's hovel and stab him? Who knows? There have been times when Genie could have used his magic to turn Mechanicles into a slug, but it didn't happen, so go figure. I'm sure there's reasons us fans can come up with, though. The closest I can come up with is that maybe he wants Aladdin to suffer as he's dying, and not kill him instantly.
As for Mirage, or any villain who just runs away after being defeated, for some reason it's too risky to keep fighting when you've been beaten. Probably any villain who does this feels it's time for a new plan of attack. (Or they might spontaniously combust if they keep fighting at that point.)
~Hikaru _________________ "HARDER, FASTER, DEEPER. . . HUH!!!!!!!" |
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VampireNaomi Sultan
Joined: 25 Jan 2006 Posts: 269 Location: Land of the Lurkers
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 12:57 pm Post subject: |
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The cynic in me thinks that the villains have no reason to do evil. They just do so that the heroes can triumph over them and we can have an entertaining cartoon.
However, I like coming up with reasons, but they always turn into my personal fanon with no canon evidence whatsoever. For example, my pasts for Mozenrath and Mechanikles are so out there that they aren't even worth discussing, unless we take this to fanfiction related themes.
As for Mozenrath's main motive, I think he just wants lots of magical power and is too proud to start the invasion from other kingdoms. Aladdin has shown he can be trouble, so in order for the victory to be perfect, Mozenrath would have to beat him on his own without getting "help" from conquered kingdoms. If that makes sense.
One thing I've always wondered is why Aladdin and co. don't try to capture the villains. I mean, surely they want to stop them from doing evil. Why not throw them to jail instead of letting them escape and come back with a new plot? Holding down Mozenrath might be a bit hard, unless you take away his glove, but I doubt Abis Mal or Mechanikles could do anything once you throw them behind a locked door. The villains have given enough reasons for the heroes to hunt them down and bring to justice. _________________ "Now nothing will stand in the way of DOING THE DISHES!" |
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AmethystFae Portland Princess
Joined: 18 Dec 2005 Posts: 837 Location: Portland, OR
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:13 pm Post subject: |
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VampireNaomi wrote: |
The cynic in me thinks that the villains have no reason to do evil. They just do so that the heroes can triumph over them and we can have an entertaining cartoon.
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Well, that's exactly it. And we all know that. It's still fun to pretend the characters are real, though
Quote: |
However, I like coming up with reasons, but they always turn into my personal fanon with no canon evidence whatsoever. For example, my pasts for Mozenrath and Mechanikles are so out there that they aren't even worth discussing, unless we take this to fanfiction related themes. |
Every one of us has a theory. It's interesting to hear other people's, but I've seen discussions like that turn into a flame war because one believes this about said character while another thinks the idea's absurd and feels everybody needs to know that. So, I see what you mean.
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As for Mozenrath's main motive, I think he just wants lots of magical power and is too proud to start the invasion from other kingdoms. Aladdin has shown he can be trouble, so in order for the victory to be perfect, Mozenrath would have to beat him on his own without getting "help" from conquered kingdoms. If that makes sense. |
Perfect sense. Besides that, I bet Mozenrath feels that Aladdin must be dealt with first before he can conquer anything else. Afterall, that streetrat has gotten in his way so many times before. What's to stop him if Mozenrath starts conquering other kingdoms?
Quote: |
One thing I've always wondered is why Aladdin and co. don't try to capture the villains. I mean, surely they want to stop them from doing evil. Why not throw them to jail instead of letting them escape and come back with a new plot? Holding down Mozenrath might be a bit hard, unless you take away his glove, but I doubt Abis Mal or Mechanikles could do anything once you throw them behind a locked door. The villains have given enough reasons for the heroes to hunt them down and bring to justice. |
Well, at the end of Forget Me Lots, Abis Mal and Harud thought they were the royal pet attendents. I wonder when that wore off.
Besides, maybe some of them have been to jail and escaped? Who knows?
But like you said at the beginning of your post, (well, implied) if that happened, we wouldn't have anything entertaining to watch.
~Hikaru _________________ "HARDER, FASTER, DEEPER. . . HUH!!!!!!!" |
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AladdinsGenie Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 11787 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:16 pm Post subject: |
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Calluna wrote: |
AladdinsGenie wrote: |
Calluna wrote: |
Mirage's plans just don't make sense most of the time. |
You noticed that, too? All her plots are odd. |
The problem with Mirage is that they made her too powerful; they had to make her stupid for Aladdin to actually beat her. I mean, when her plans fail, she just stands there and lets Aladdin gloat or runs back to Morbia yelling "I'll get you next time!" I mean, she's standing right there next to Aladdin; why not just zap him to death? The same is true of Mozenrath to some extent, but not as much as Mirage: in "Two to Tangle" he can apparently teleport into the palace grounds and kidnap Aladdin; why not just teleport into his hovel one night and stab him in the heart and be done with it? |
Cause then the show would be over in one episode . I ask myself the same questions when it comes to Genie. They just shift and manipulate his powers to work with the episode because he'll do one thing in one episode and when he needs to do that same thing again in another, all of a sudden he can't or it doesn't cross his mind. If there wasn't any dumbing down of magic and everyone was able to use their power at will, a lot of characters wouldn't be around
PrincessHikaru wrote: |
There have been times when Genie could have used his magic to turn Mechanicles into a slug, but it didn't happen, so go figure. |
I was just going to say that . All Genie has to do is turn them into bugs and then someone else can step on them. The end
VampireNaomi wrote: |
One thing I've always wondered is why Aladdin and co. don't try to capture the villains. |
Cause they prefer defense? I can't think of a time when they went after the villain as opposed to the other way around, or the villain was doing something and Aladdin just so happened to be there and stop it. The Wind Jackals they weren't going after Mozenrath; they just wanted the weapon. |
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Calluna Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 14 Jul 2004 Posts: 3692 Location: Where the wind comes sweepin' down the plain.
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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AladdinsGenie wrote: |
I can't think of a time when they went after the villain as opposed to the other way around, or the villain was doing something and Aladdin just so happened to be there and stop it. The Wind Jackals they weren't going after Mozenrath; they just wanted the weapon. |
The only other one besides that I can think of was "Smolder and Wiser", but Al just tried to take Magma's candle from Abis Mal, not to capture him. _________________ "If only I could believe you. Perhaps I can! After all... you do bear the name of a flower." -- Arbutus |
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Ariellen Scourge of the Desert
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 708
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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AladdinsGenie wrote: |
Not Cruella. She wanted a coat |
Maleficent didn't want the world either...she was just peeved that she didn't get invited to a baby's birthday celebration, and decided the best way to make friends and get invited to parties was...to curse the hosts' children with death.
For such a chillingly effective (not to mention amazingly designed) villain...she sure didn't have very good motives...but hey, the Queen in Snow White was willing to murder in order to be the 'fairest in the land,' so hey...another one who can creep people out and seem really really threatening, but when you think about what it is they want, it's like "Hmm, isn't this a bit extreme?"
And just for AG (because her icon speaks the truth )...MALEFICENT/JAFAROTP!!!!
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AladdinsGenie Genie of the Messageboard
Joined: 17 Jul 2004 Posts: 11787 Location: Tennessee
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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They're in public together now! |
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Ariellen Scourge of the Desert
Joined: 04 May 2005 Posts: 708
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Posted: Mon Mar 20, 2006 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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AladdinsGenie wrote: |
They're in public together now! |
I wish I'd had time to go scanner-happy before I came back to school...that picture is from my friend Katie's digicam. I took one the good ol' film way where they're walking across the stage and Maleficent is in front pointing the way and looking demanding...Jafar is hanging his head as he follows her...general effect is 'yup, she's got him whipped.' I promise to scan it in May when I'm home so you can see. |
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